Jesus: An Interview Across Time

A psychiatrist looks at Christ's humanity

There are excerpts avialable for each of the five major sections of the book. You can read them here.

1. Preparation and Revelation
2. Baptism, Temptation, Selection
3. Opposition and Confirmation
4. Instruction and Celebration
5. Crucifixion and Resurrection

1. Preparation and Revelation

This section essentially establishes just how human the Son of Man really was. Led by the interviewer's questions, Jesus explains how He came to know He was the Messiah and how difficult it was growing up as an illegitimate child in His town.

The core of Section One is Jesus' own revelation of Himself, through the Scriptures, fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, and the guidance of His Father in heaven. But threaded alongside the wonder of His divinity are descriptions of the often painful humanness He lived with daily. Jesus is asked such questions as :

• Why do you think [God] chose Mary to be your mother?
• When did you realize there was more in the Scriptures about you, and that you were the Messiah?
• You fulfilled over three hundred specific prophecies about the Messiah, yet the scholars, the ones who were supposed to teach the people what to look for in the Messiah, missed your appearance entirely. Why?
• What happened in those next "silent years"?
• Did it bother you that your own Father would allow you to die?
• If you were fully God and omniscient, how could you have been a man?

And Jesus gives clear answers, showing us God's wonderful ways:

"From the first second in my mother's womb, my Father was making known to me my role in this world. I was to be abused so that my people could be free. I was to be illegitimate so that they might be legitimate. My Father was preparing me to learn how to take suffering. When I got older, I heard the taunts of some of my peers: 'He doesn't know who his Father is.'"

"It occurred to me that God, if he operated the way He usually did, would fool everybody when He picked the Messiah, just as He did when He chose David to be the King of Israel."

"This chosen self-limitation of becoming a man forced me into a mature, dependent relationship with my Father... My Father never let me get to the point of not having to walk by faith. To be tempted in all ways includes humanity's biggest temptation: not believing in God, doubting He's there. The first step in every sin is to think that God's not looking."

"I had His spirit. With every passing day I could love more. To be able to love is a wonderful gift, the gift. It became more and more difficult to take that away from me, because I was learning the power of forgiveness. If you were hateful to me, you weren't going to make me hateful like you or make me hate myself. By mistreating me you couldn't change who I was, and you couldn't make me stop loving. Inside there was more and more peace, and more and more power. I was just like my Father."

"On a particular day, at a particular time, my Father can get any message in His Word through to anyone. That's how He does it — timing. It's how He makes it personal. Ask anyone who has ever listened to Him on a daily basis consistently for any length of time. That person will tell you that God's sense of timing is unsurpassed."

"There is some preparation in just knowing that you are going to be murdered. I remember that when I was older, I used to pull my beard from time to time just to see what it felt like. One day my mother saw me doing it, and asked me about it, and I told her, 'You know what the 50th chapter of Isaiah says.' And she replied, 'I don't want to think about it.'... People who think I was Superman make a mockery of the Incarnation. How was I going to teach people how to seek God, how to relate to Him when they couldn't see Him, and what to expect from Him, if I had never had to seek Him?... If I'd used my omniscience, I would never have had to have an ounce of faith. Everything I taught, I learned firsthand."

2. Baptism, Temptation and Selection

Section 2 introduces the reader to the beginning of Jesus' ministry on earth. The interviewer leads with questions that many of us have wondered about from time to time — questions we might want to ask Him someday:

• Did you know exactly when you would begin your ministry or did you have to wait with some uncertainty?
• Why did you get baptized?
• Did you know beforehand you were going to be tempted?
• How did Satan react?
• How did you feel after the temptations?
• What did you and the angels talk about?
• What significance did you see in your first miracle [turning water into wine]?
• Why did you pick Judas?
• What were the times like when you were alone with your disciples?

The reader gets the inside story of both the pain and joy of Jesus early in his years of ministry. We can hear Him say:

"When John finally came, the plan was being carried out at last, just as my Father had said. It was a very secure feeling. I was nearly twenty-nine when John the Baptist first came on the scene and began to attract attention, and I just chuckled to myself. I now felt very certain that my Father was telling me, "You're right. When you're thirty — that's the time."

"They were people from all walks of life — common people, teenagers, Roman soldiers — even some of the Pharisees. John's fame had spread beyond Israel, and you've never seen anyone who could reach a crowd the way he could. After he preached, hundreds of people would line up to be baptized by John. Most of all, the Baptist talked about me, telling them that a Light had come into their midst. The Messiah was here! John really did his job. He prepared the crowds for me."

"Fasting is rather like seeing in the dark. At first, everything is black and all you can think about is pain and food. After a while, you being to see things, to perceive things that you couldn't at first. When you don't eat, you quickly recognize how vulnerable you are, and I wanted to know that. Without leaning heavily on Him, I could never go through with it."

"At this particular time in the wilderness, I was elated. I had just heard my Father's voice. He was never closer. He was there beside me. I had just finished the forty-day fast when Satan surprised me...

"I hadn't talked to another human being for forty days. He seemed to take delight in me and to revere me. I told him about my joy and he seemed to understand. He even brought up the fact that I would overcome the evil in the world. It crossed my mind that he might be the enemy, but he was so convincing. We talked some more about fasting and what a great experience it had been. We both laughed when he said, 'I don't suppose you are hungry.'"

"I was going to make it clear to the people that my Father was paying an enormous price to have a relationship with them, and if they wanted one with Him, they would have to obey His commands as I did. I wasn't going to tone the message down. If they were to live, they would to do what the Father and I were doing. They would have to give their lives for others. I planned not just to get people to say, yes, but also to get them involved in a process. I was going to give them my life. Then my people would give their lives to others."

"I remember comments at night, before going to sleep, such as Philip's saying, 'Lord, when your Father made this earth, He missed this spot of ground I'm sleeping on; it's a little hard. It's probably His only other mistake besides Peter.' Those were the times I'll always remember."

"I would look at my disciples and think, 'This is who I'm dying for. Is it worth it?' The answer would always be, 'Yes.'"

3. Opposition and Confirmation

Section 3 shows us the radical Jesus, the man who made the leaders of his time incredibly nervous, angry, and jealous. Jesus tells his interviewer about how He truly viewed the Pharisees. We see His passion about the purity of Truth. This section also shows us the pain He experienced as he tells about the death of John the Baptist, the preview of his crucifixion, and signs of the end. However, the Messiah is delighted by the works His Father sends Him to do and the people who receive Him. The reader gets a closer glimpse of the disciples' personalities through the stories of Jesus. The interviewer poses these questions, and others, to the Master:

• You didn't like the Pharisees very much, did you?
• How did these educated men miss you?
• How can you justify Christianity's claim to be the only way to God, a claim that offends many people?
• What did you and your Father talk about?
• Can a person choose you or does your Father choose your followers?
• Can you really love a Spirit, "someone" you can't see, like God?

Again, Jesus' responses draw the reader into the very heart of God, offering hope and assurance that God is Love, that Jesus is God, and that He really does know what He's doing. Here are some responses from Section 3:

"If the Pharisees had [humbled themselves], they would have given the people victory over their biggest opponent — themselves — and would have made everyone a true neighbor. But the Pharisees didn't believe their own religion and weren't true to their own faith... The Pharisees were charged with lightening the people's burdens and presenting them a God who would lift their spirits as He lifted their guilt. Instead of humility and freedom, however, they gave their charges slavery and oppression. The greatest oppression in my country at that time in history was not from the Romans; it was from the Pharisees."

"Be wary of those hypocrites, those ministers who change my words and my Father's words and say, 'God didn't really say that — this is what He said...' That voice goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. Many a famous man by the world's standards has made the same disastrous mistake. They have taken that fatal step from which there is no return and have changed the holy words of Scripture into 'what they really mean.' This is where more than one scholar has been converted into a fool by his pride... C. S. Lewis reminds them — it is impossible for man to be right and God to be wrong."

"Someone ought to stand outside the church door on Sunday morning, greeting each worshipper kindly with, 'Good morning, murderer; Good morning, lustful one; Good morning, envious one; Good morning, greedy one; Good morning, evil one.' Then right inside the door should be another minister greeting them again, saying, 'Welcome; come and receive forgiveness. Come and receive Christ's gift. Welcome to the house of peace. Good morning, saint by His righteousness. Good morning; receive His righteousness.'"

"I'll tell you what makes great Christians and a great church — humble hearts. Of course, the price for humility is the same as the price for compassion — pain. This means death to the myth of the good self, the good person, the 'sweet lady,' the 'gentleman.' And myths die hard."

"The people of this world today are being fed one of the greatest propaganda lines in history, and they don't see it. They're being told, 'You make up your own mind. Do your own thing; it doesn’t matter.' I want to say that it does matter. Everything matters. You matter. Your choices matter. Your words matter. Your children matter. Isn't that a wonderful message?"

"Then I took the five loaves and two fish and fed five thousand men and their families all they could eat. As I divided the food, I looked out at that crowd and kept thinking, 'This is my body broken for you.' And at the same time to comfort myself, I thought, 'The Kingdom of God will multiply just as this food is multiplied.' After it was over, I had my disciples gather the leftovers. There were twelve large baskets. They said it was the most delicious fish those people ever had. You can confirm that in heaven."

4. Instruction and Celebration

Section 4 shows the reader the heart of a teacher — the Jesus who came to guide like a Good Shepherd. We get some insight into His great teachings — and the hard words. One of the subsections is called "The Flesh Became Word" — a wonderful truth that plays on the Scripture that the "Word became flesh." It brings Jesus and his mission full circle. Listen as the interviewer asks, among other things:

• How did you decide exactly what to teach the people about who you were?
• You knew you would teach. Did you practice making up parables?
• How could this great crowd, so totally enthralled with you, cry out five days later for your execution?
• How did you know when you were going to die?
• Why, at the moment [the disciples] least deserved it, did you give them your blessing?
• Were you looking forward to heaven?

Jesus is at the height of his ministry, but the overshadowing certainty of his horrible death-to-come never left him for a moment. Here is how he explains this time and His ministry to the people:

"I always wanted people to get an idea of a relationship that was vital and alive. That's why I tried to use images that were basic to life, such as bread and water. That's why communion is so primitive—it is the same sort of idea. My Father emphasized further the kind of relationship I would have with my people. I told them the same thing that He did; I was their shepherd... Privately, before my death, the most common way I thought about myself was as the peoples shepherd, the shepherd who lays down his life for his sheep."

"When I saw who my Father was, felt His heartbeat in the pages of the Old Testament, it resonated deep within me with the passion I had for the oneness of mankind. I could see that I was pure and I could see my brothers' blindness. I was prepared to put everything on the line for them when I came to see that my Father had put out everything He had for them, too. He had sent His only Son, and you don't think His only Son was going to let Him down. And I wasn't going to ask anything less of my brothers. There will be no room in heaven for the timid, the ultimately timid. Many there, if not all, will have overcome their timidity."

"We all know the feeling when justice wins out. In heaven, that's what will bond me to every person. I will know each one's sins have been paid for by me personally, and we will share that tremendous feeling that justice has finally prevailed. Never think for one minute that justice won't prevail in heaven."

"No matter who they were, I saw everyone as potentially one of my followers. Remember, whenever you talk to a man about God, his conscience is on your side. Everyone you will ever meet is made in the image of God, and we must encourage people to believe that, to have faith in who they really are."

"That moment with Mary and Martha was so powerful I couldn't contain my emotions any longer. As we walked down that road, I wept for my friend Lazarus, for my Father [Joseph], and for my own impending death. And everyone surrounding me would go through that shattering experience."

"They had been promised a Messiah by Jehovah, and surely I was the One with power to overthrow the Romans. It was only a matter of time, they thought, until I would bring my angels with me to overthrow Rome and the rest of the world. They knew I could do it. And they were right. There was not question about that... So the crowd rushed to get their hosannas. A hosanna was a palm branch signifying not only peace, but peace following a great conquest... This day in one sense was the centerpiece of our history, before and since. I'm the only Prince of Peace who's ever come to this world... The Prince of Peace was here bringing peace Himself, peace itself, to Jerusalem and to the world. This was my Coronation Day, even though I had to wait five days to get my official 'crown.'"

5. Crucifixion and Resurrection

Most of humanity knows the story of the cross of Christ. We have seen the movies, read the Scriptures, listened to the sermons. But here, the reader gets to hear what Jesus has to say about those tortuous hours — and the utter amazement of the resurrection. The interviewer, knowing the intensity necessary to complete this part of the questioning, asks compelling questions of the Suffering Servant, but mostly allows Jesus to tell his story of the pain and shame of Calvary. Here is a sampling of some questions found in Section 5:

• Were you frightened of the possibility of denying your mission?
• What went through your mind in the Garden of Gethsemane?
• Why did God allow evil in the first place?
• How did it feel coming back from the dead?
• You first appeared to women. Why?

Much less of the interviewer's voice is present in this section. Jesus tells heart-wrenching details and explains His last hours with little interruption, almost as if drifting back to that day. Then He speaks of His resurrection, and the hope available to mankind. Listen:

"When the end came, I was determined. There was never a better-prepared man on the eve of a battle. Nobody ever before had God's promise that they would win. That's how confident I was. That was one side of me. As the Scriptures make clear, however, I had a real battle on my hands. There was always the other side of me. My humanity. My emotions. My senses. I had to overcome that side again the last day of my life, just as I had every day of my life."

"It would be as if you were a child with the kindest, most loving mother in the world, who one day tied you up and then very slowly began to torture you to death. All the time you would be looking up at her with your trusting eyes but all you could see would be enormous fury that she would be taking out on you. Somehow you would know that she hated the pain, too, and that she was doing it because she was punishing you to save others who really deserved the punishment. The moment I dreaded was when my Father would see me not as His precious son, but as the most evil sinner in the history of the world. He had to see me that way if I were really going to take their place. I feared His judgment because I knew how great His power was. I'd used it, and I had felt just a minute fraction of His fury when I cleansed the Temple of those despicable men and destroyed their belongings. His wrath had been stored up for centuries."

"They put a kingly robe on me. Still I said nothing, but I thought: 'You don't know what you're doing. One day I shall come into my kingdom in shining raiment indescribably greater than this.' Even in persecution, in the mocking, I was reminded of Who I was."

"I had won the first round when the Jews had beaten me at the first trial early that morning. But the infamous Roman flogging was another story. It was feared throughout the Empire. They stripped off all my clothes, and tied my hands to a half pillar so that my back, my buttocks, and legs were fully exposed. Then it started. The whip was a cat-of-nine-tails with nine lashes of thick leather and little iron balls on the end that dug into your flesh and then ripped it out with each blow. The first lash came, and the pain was excruciating! By the third lash, my entire back was on fire. I had never experienced pain like that. I never knew I had so many nerves. Before the pain could subside more than a second, the next blow came, worse than the one before. Every time he hit me — thirty-nine times in all — I didn't see how the pain could get any worse... Several times I almost cried out, but I was determined not to. My Father had promised me that I wouldn't... The man with the whip noticed my silence. You can imagine the type of soldier who would volunteer for the job. He began to mock me, "So we've got a tough one here." The contest was on. He was determined to make me beg for mercy... I begged my Father all the way, but not him. Between blows, I would try to talk to myself... 'This one is for Matthew's peace.' — lash. 'This one is for Thomas's peace.' — lash... He picked up a bucket of salt water and threw it on my raw back. It was like being on fire, and then the fire becoming twice as hot... Finally it was over. I had won the second round. I had not uttered a word."

"I kept fighting to keep my head above the pain, but I was so exhausted I kept sinking deeper and deeper. Finally. All I could hear was the ridiculing, and all I could feel was the pain. I couldn't hear my own voice. I couldn't speak. Suddenly, the man on the cross to my left cursed me, "So you are the Son of God. You can't even save yourself. Prove you're the messiah. Save yourself and us, too. Prove it. Prove it if you can." It was too much, the last thing I had expected."

"Sometimes I would cling to a brief thought: 'I am the Lamb of God — the Lamb of God.' When I would reach those points, the few words that meant the most to me were, 'My beloved son.' I was hoping that some of their reality could penetrate the fog of the moment."

"My chest was heaving. The pain was now wearing me down more than ever. And I was constantly short of breath and so thirsty. It was extremely dark. It was past three in the afternoon by then, and I had been on that cross for more than six hours. Everywhere I turned, there was no relief. There was no relief even in thinking about all the memories — the Last Supper, the Transfiguration, the miracles, or even my Baptism. I could no longer hear those words "My beloved Son." They all seemed too far away, as if they had never happened. It was so hard to concentrate. Thinking about my future glory seemed too far away. I felt suspended in time as if I had been there and would be there forever. The pain was unbelievable. The staring and mocking never let up. '“So you trust the Lord. Why? Is he really looking after you? Healer, heal yourself.' 'Why don't you come on down, Prophet?'"

"You should have seen it when I first walked into Heaven lined with angels shouting for joy and my Father in His glory as I walked to Him, dripping in blood. That moment was preserved forever, and one day you will get to see it."